Brain Drain: True? Myth! Future?
Brain Drain: True? Myth! Future?
| By babu on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 01:16 pm: |
hello
every body
i know following computer programmes and language
1. M.S.Office
2. Page Maker
3. Corel draw
4. Tally
5. H.T.M.L
and know following language
1. Hindi
2. Urdu
3. Marathi
4. Sindhi
5. English
6. Gurmukh (Punjabi)
and i have ten 10. years own business expierience in diffrence fields , and marketing too for my own business.
and now want to service / business , job or partnership in middle east or far east or USA OR europe, Hong Kong , Germany, France, Singapore, Thailand, U.A.E. SHARJA Saudi arbia, Dubai, oman qatar , i mean any where , in world
but where there is future is bright for me and next generation.
by
if any OFFERS, SUGGESTION,
PLEASE send me i am awaiting
THANKING AND WAITING FOR YOUR KIND CO-OPERATION.
BY BY
babuhaswani@yahoo.com
By babu on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 04:17 pm:
hello every body
we are operating a computer institute in india maharashtra
and looking for an partner for web page designing and run this setup
by by
| By Tom Alex on Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 03:43 am: |
I passed BE in Industrial Production in first class from Mangalore University in 1988. Got MBA in Marketing from Visveswaraiah Tech. University Belgaum with first class. Completed E-Comerce course course from Pentasoft Technologiesm Mangalore.
Looking up for challenging job opertunity in USA.
| By Santanu on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 09:43 am: |
dear sir
i want topic for the following matter
1.topic about leader in RDBMS in India
2.increase the capability of a web client.
3.different between Microsoft server and netscape server in the field of internet.
Tahnking You
| By ninjan on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 08:34 pm: |
Funny how people talk about Hitler and does probably not know how to tell a face from an ass. Anyways it's easy to post simple solutions to complex problems, arguments etc. on an html page somewhere lost in all information..... get in politics if you want to change something, powerless pieces of crap.......
| By Ram Kumar on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 05:48 pm: |
Hi guys found an interesting explanation of brain brain in another discussion list.
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Look at the class of people who are migrating to US in droves, they are mostly the ruling "class" who were in administrative position, irrespective of which "emperor, king, or company" ruled India this class of people are spread across all religious, social groups. One identifying factor is, they were "literate" while the masses were forcibly kept "illiterate". In fact we can say this elite class were the real rulers of India for past 4000 years, since they could influence the administrative policies easily due to their proximity to rulers.
Now let us see what this so called "brilliant" people has achieved in the past 4000 years? I know there are lot of tall claims of our ancient literature. Let us burst that bubble, if we look closely most of it is distorted pseudo scientific writing. Which clearly points to the fact that people who wrote these were not the people who "developed" or "practiced" the technology described in those literature.
A single visit to most Indian villages (I have traveled through 18 of the Indian states, UT) will prove this point look at "who" practices technology in these villages, it is the - Black Smith (Mechanical Engineering) Mason, Carpenter (Civil Engineering) Gold Smith, Potter and people who make wide range of highly decorative Handicrafts. To make this things requires "technical skills" and "high creativity". By the way all these technology
were developed and practiced by "illiterate" people.
Now some of you will ask, if India had all those creative techno savvy people why is India still technologically backward and poor. The answer is "Caste System" which kept the "real creative people" illiterate and allowed "mediocre" people to masquerade as "brilliant people" and rule over them.
Now let us see how the "illiteracy" factor slowed down the technological advancement. India was technologically on par with other nations of the world, until printing and literacy for "all class of people" came into effect in Western world. Printing and literacy allowed western people to "store" existing knowledge base and incrementally add to the existing knowledge base much faster.
There is a specific reason for this, human intelligence is uniformly distributed irrespective of class, race, religion or social factors and follows the "bell curve", means that, a small number of people in any population will be highly intelligent, most of the people will be of average intelligence and small number may be below average. The incidence of high intelligence is not hereditary, but very random.
In India due to the forced "illiteracy" among the people who practiced technology by caste system, incremental addition to knowledge base remained slow. Technological innovation made by one person could only be passed to the children who may not have the same level of "intellectual" prowess as the parent who made the innovation, this meant children may not "pass on" the innovation to their children. This is like taking one step forward and two backward and substantially slowed down the incremental additions to technology. This was fine till the western world introduced printing and literacy for all people, which accelerated the incremental addition to technology. Each innovation in technology was now recorded and passed on to next generation of brilliant people who further innovated and added to the existing technology. This started the explosive growth of technology in the western world and There is no way India can catch up with this until the caste system is abolished.
Now some of you may ask didn't we abolish the caste system? theoretically yes and practically no. When the social caste system was abolished it was re-introduced in a more "potent" version in educational system.
So we now have different "caste" of schools, ICSE, CBSE and the English Medium Schools for the "Elite's" and the Vernacular Medium schools for the "ordinary" people. All the "elite" bureaucrats and "education" experts say education should be in "Mother Tongue" but send their own children to "English Medium" schools and All the "higher education" is in English medium. Isn't this caste system in a more potent version than the social caste system???
Now let us look at the effect of Reservation system combined with the Educational caste system. We have seen many people in this forum suggest Reservation system should be abolished. Let us look at who really benefits from the Reservation system. Now suppose if there is 50% reservation for the poor sections of the society in Education, Govt. jobs, because of the caste system in the Education (elite's children studying in English Medium and all the Higher education being in English Medium give them undue advantage) this 50% Reservation for poorer section of the society in practice means 50% reservation in Education and Govt. jobs for the "Elite's" who consists just 15% of the population of India. So who is reservation "really" for?
The reservation system should be immediately abolished, and simultaneously the "caste system in education" should also be removed and uniform education syllabus introduced all over India. If English Medium education is good for the "elite's" it is good for the ordinary people of India also. If uniform education system is introduced let's see how many of the so called elite's will be able to compete with the "really brilliant" ordinary people.
If for the past 4000 years the so called Indian "elite" were not able to do much for the development of India, what can we expect from them in just 53 years or till they are the ruling class of India. After democracy has been introduced in India, the elite ruling classes know that their days as the ruling class is numbered, they are doing their best to delay the transition of power to the "ordinary people" by manipulating the education system. But these tactics can only succeed for limited time, they know that very well. No wonder large number of "elite's" are migrating to US. It is interesting to note that these elite classes never migrated when Mughals or the British ruled India, but are migrating in droves once Democracy is introduced in India.
The brain drain is actually "brain gain" since it gives more opertunity for people who really care for development of India. So let us encourage "brain drain", at least it may avoid a civil war or will it....?
| By JAGGARAYUDU on Sunday, August 13, 2000 - 05:18 am: |
i am one of the unfortunate doctor who acheived high sucess in india ,lured by western hype landed in uk and serving these people as slaves even though we have a free country of our own. in my view none should make the above mistake ;THERE IS NOTHING MORE VALUBLE THAN MOTHER AND MOTHERLAND,JAI HIND
| By Mr Braindead on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 02:17 pm: |
que 1. what is the scope for MBA"s from university like pune univ with a B grade institue, who r hunting for jobs in india ? can they get an entry level mkt jobs in usa, irrespective of more or less or minimum salaries? i just wanna know if theres a scope for students with very average academics, in U S Of America?:))))))))))))))) pls let meknow as i am job less for last one year and still in process of identifying the right job for myself >and i aslo feel that my potential is getting wasted as i dont really see anyn opportunities much here as per my qualification.
| By charles on Wednesday, August 02, 2000 - 11:30 pm: |
As an additional point to consider
Please do not underestimate the talent of computing proffesionals from
Mexico
South America
Turkey
Eastern Europe
To name but a few.
Additionally on the subject of COBOL how long has Java , and C++ been used.
Why has COBOL endured because of a few points
(1) It does not change every day
(2) It works
(3) You do not need to pay a fortune to someone who
claims to know something about it but actually
knows nothing.
(4) Also have you ever noticed why LINUX that sells
for half the price remains on the Shelves at the
shops and people still insist on using Windows
simple ease of use. Remember the KISS principle
Keep It Simple Stupid
Forget OOP and Java the next paradime shift is going to be Artificial Inteligence and then when all of the objects have been created who is going to need this army of overpriced C++ and Java hackers..
I solidly believe that the US should immediatly grant Greencards to all H1B's. They should encourage the best people from all over the world to stay in the US.
| By Charles on Wednesday, August 02, 2000 - 11:08 pm: |
Not all but some of you people are talking just like Adolf Hitler and the Nazies. (Indian programmers are superiour to everyone else etc....)
He had the master race philosphy too. India is starting to get this master race philosphy also.
The fact is good and creative people come from all parts of the world..
| By ilwdotcom on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 04:08 pm: |
Ask your question on immigration to an immigration lawyer at ILW.COM- The Immigration Portal to the US and Canada on a regular basis. Visit http://www.ilw.com/chat/calendar for the chat schedule.
| By Anonymous on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 10:11 am: |
I wonder why but I don't remember a single line of
oppinion written by an Indian living in India in this
context ( Brain drain and Civic behaviour ). I am not
sure of how disciplined a people Americans are but
from what I have read, heard or seen on television,
they is a more higher percentage of uncivic people
among them than in India. It`s all my conclusions mind
you, don't ask for figures).
And as for the not so wonderful of the Indian students
making it big in the US, I should say that is because
of the kind of competition they face. Indian
educated are far more competive and capable than a
person of similar degree from any other country. If
the creme is not able to make it big in India it is
because most of the creme is not capable of facing the
competition they face from fellow intelectuals(This
is with due respect to the real creme which India has
lost to the world that has more money). Gone
are the days when you paid to get a job in a govt.
office. It is the era of the multinational Indian
companies that care a damn about the few thousands of
rupees any body would pay for a job. They are doing
buisiness in a competetive world and such acts would
only make them to disappear from the buisiness.
I still am waiting for an Indian living in India to
write about the views, we the so called NRI's have
about the country and it's people.
| By tsr on Tuesday, November 09, 1999 - 08:57 pm: |
regarding brain, stupid indian govt BANNED emigration of doctors from 70 to late 80s. Did the health care improve? NO why??? NO JOBS! I am one of thousands of MBBSs without a job? doctors are doing menial jobs even now! TN state cannnot afford to hire doctors, it CANNOT provide with BASIC tools to practice medicine! India STINKS because of our STUPID policies.
THE BRAIN THAT HAS DRINED IS THE ONE FROM OUR ADMINISTRATORS AND CORRUPT POLITICIANS WHO FOLLOW THE DEAD SOVIET UNION's POLICIES!
| By Venkitachalam Subramanian on Tuesday, December 29, 1998 - 06:45 pm: |
By Hathoda on Wednesday, December 23, 1998 - 01:45 pm:
"Why are we like this? We are so called cream from India. "
First and foremost, let us ask ourselves whether we are indeed the cream of
India? How many of us are gold medallists and invited by prestigious
universities or firms to work with them? Not even 5% of all of us here in
the USA who claim to be the cream from India. The rest of us are maybe first
class degree holders in anything from Engineering to Botany and Zoology,
with a dash of COBOL, Oracle or Java and a H1B sponsorship (or a green
card). We are in no way the cream of India. There are a lot of people who
scored better marks in the exams and who landed up better jobs than us and
did not take the decision to come over to the USA, like many of us did. They
are in no way inferior to us, in the matter of being the cream of
India.Regarding the guys with COBOL, I can tell one thing, they are here
only because the USA needs COBOL guys more than India does. India gave up
programming in that relic, way back in the 80s, where as it is still the
eighth wonder that most (or is almost all) of the major organizations thrive
on COBOL. These "cream of India" would not land a job back in India!
As regards the behavior of some people in the theatres, even in India, it
was only a perverted minority who used to indulge in these sort of things.
Why can't Mr. Hathoda visualize this situation? Let us suppose, that we were
watching a movie in Kapali theatre in Bangalore(I mention this city because
it is my favourite city in India). Some perverts whistle and ogle at the
beautiful girls in the movie and in the theatre. Maybe 4 or 5 of those
perverts are doing their 3 month SAP course at BITECH or APTECH or CBSINC. A
couple of months later, they land up in Fremont, California on an H1B and a
job giving them $100/= per hour. What do you think they will do when they
see a scantily clad Kajol or Rani or Juhi, in Naaz theatre? They would do
all the things which Mr.Hathoda described in vivid detail.
It is not a question of India. It is about some perverts among Indians who
can't control themselves. Why do you think I stopped going to Indian movies
here in the USA and opted for the videos? It is simpler and better viewing.
You have only your children to watch out for, you have your own toilet and
your own leisurely pace of watching the movie, all at the cost of only one
dollar. (In case you are sloppy, you have to step on only your own urine)
The only problem is that the video could be a pirated one, and I am
indirectly helping video-piracy. Look at the bright side. If all of us
boycott such theatres, the perverts will be the only ones watching the
movies and they will shame one another into behaving well, the movies will
fail to be hits and the producers will then start releasing licenced
versions of the video in the USA and we will be able to put down video
piracy! How about that?
| By Hathoda on Thursday, December 31, 1998 - 12:46 am: |
This message is for Mr. Venkitachalam Subramanian,
First of all, I wrote the above message as a funny criticism of our bad habits. I think your idea of boycotting the Indian Movie theaters is good one. But I still believe that we are cream of India. When I say cream I don’t mean that all of us came to USA are only gold medalist and there is no gold medalist left in India and as soon as someone receive gold medal the next thing he/she does is get plane to USA and Clinton is waiting for them at the Airport. Now Please answer my questions and then give me your opinion if we are cream or not.
You need to be honest and just use your judgment numbers.
What is % of people with a Bachelor Degree out of total population of India?
What is % of people with a Masters Degree out of total population of India?
What is % of people with Professional Bachelor Degree (Engineering/Medicine) out of total population of India?
What is % of people with Professional Master Degree (Engineering/Medicine) out of total population of India?
What is % of people with Professional Doctorate Degree (Engineering/Medicine) out of total population of India?
1 Is the ratio of people coming to US is same as above mentioned five categories?
2 Do you think educated and uneducated people come to US in same ratio as in India?
If your answer to last two questions is No.
Then How big is difference in % coming to USA with higher education than Ratio in India?
My friend number don’t lie and if you still think that CREAM is left in India and only rejected and uneducated people come to USA then you are far from reality.
Now what is wrong with SAP and COBOL, if we learn and make our fortune as millions other do to survive. Do you really think only people who do crazy things in Hindi Movie theater are SAP and COBOL literate? You seems to me jealous with people in software industry as they make more money than you do.
Mr. Subramanian writes: "Regarding the guys with COBOL, I can tell one thing, they are here only because the USA needs COBOL guys more than India does. India gave up programming in that relic, way back in the 80s, where as it is still the eighth wonder that most (or is almost all) of the major organizations thrive on COBOL. These "cream of India" would not land a job back in India!"
First of all to land a job in India you need not to be Gold Medalist or COBOL literate, the only thing you need to have is plenty of money for bribery or son of a politician or high profile government officer. Which is not in our control and we try to find ways to overcome. One way is USA.
So you think COBOL literate will not land a job in India because India does not use COBOL. Can you please tell me, anything we use in India more advanced than USA. I am not insulting my country but want to be realistic. All our software industry is dependent on western countries (USA, Canada, Australia and European countries). They dictate what they want? How big is our domestic software market? I disagree that the Indian Organization use HIGH FI computer language which no one else knows in the world (First I doubt if Indian Firms use computer the way we use here in USA) and US firms still use COBOL as they are century behind India in application of computers.
I am not insulting uneducated people in this write up as sometimes circumstance does not allow to get education (financial, reservations, bla bla….). I disagree with you that all the gold medalist stay in India and only third division people come here in USA. I am not promoting either that all the bright people should come to USA as my country need some bright people also but this is not under my control. I may go back some day to serve my country, I never abandoned my country I still love India. I am grateful to my country India as they provided me education then and only then I was able to come to USA a land of opportunity. The truth is financial reasons and lifestyle brought us here in USA. If you don’t want to accept this then What are you doing here in USA? Why don’t you go back and be the cream of India? USA does not invite Gold Medalist or Third Divison people from India. We come here against the well of USA. That is why they fixed Indian Immigration quota so that they can restrict people from India.
If my facts are wrong and you still believe that only the Third Division and uneducated people come to USA, then GOD BLESS you my friend.
| By Venkit on Thursday, December 31, 1998 - 08:40 pm: |
Mr. Hathoda in patrika-digest # 59, misses the whole point of my letter and puts words into my mouth.
I have never even once in my letter mentioned that "all the gold medalist
stay in India and only third division people come here in USA". I have only
said that only a small percentage of us in the US can really be termed as
cream of India. The rest have come only because the US needs people and we
made the decision to come over here, while others who stayed back did not do
so.
I don't understand why he gets so touchy when I mentioned the fate of COBOL
programmers. Could it be because he is one of those who came over here as
Y2k consultant and is unable to bear the truth of what I put across so
bluntly ? I don't know if he is in touch with placement agencies across the
country. There is already a glut of COBOL programmers and a lot of them are
without jobs. This is what I wished to convey. Yes, the Java, Oracle and SAP
programmers from India get jobs fast, and inspite of exploitation by the
body shoppers are well into earning 6 figure salaries. Nobdy needs to envy
them.
He writes : " I disagree that the Indian Organization use HIGH FI computer
language which no one else knows in the world (First I
doubt if Indian Firms use computer the way we use here in USA) and US firms
still use COBOL as they are century behind India in application of
computers."
"Do you really think only people who do crazy things in Hindi Movie theater
are SAP and COBOL literate? You seems to me jealous with people in
software industry as they make more money than you do."
This is a classic case of twisting my words. I never for once said that
India uses any HIGH FI language. I only said that India had stopped
programming in COBOL way back in the 80s. I do not know whether Mr.Hathoda,
was in India during the heady days of 1985 thru 1987, when Rajiv Gandhi
started liberalisation and computerisation in India. India went the UNIX and
RDBMS way rather than the Mainframe/COBOL way. At the last count, there were
less than 100 mainframe sites in India. As soon as OOPS and Java came the
Indian industry started using those. I wonder if Mr.Hathoda, ever reads
Indian computer journals like Dataquest, Computers Today or Express
Computers. I hope he does not consider it below his dignity to read them.
I have never once mentioned that Indian firms use computers "the way we use
here in the USA". The only reason for people in India not using computers in
the same way, is lack of telecommunication infrastructure. So companies are
not interlinked or networked the way it is over here. POS transactions are
still off-line. ATM transactions are off-line. So many of the on-line things
which we are used to here in the US, are off-line there because of the same
problem and not because India does not use COBOL. Give me a break, pal.
Regarding the second part of the above quote, I can only say that Mr.Hathoda
needs to keep an interpreter with him to translate English into Hindi (or
whatever language is his mother tongue. I trust it is Hindi because of his
alias). And for your information, I have been in the software industry right
from 1984, starting to work with CP/M operating system and 8" floppy disks
and then with 20 MB disks. I really look back in wonder when I think of
those days when we ran banking software on machines with 64Kb RAM. Today my
computer has 128 MB RAM! Why should I feel jealous of myself and my peers? I
suppose Mr. Hathoda must have thought that I was an Indian Chef (not that I
have anything against them. They score higher marks than us software
professionals in immigration to Australia and New Zealand, for sure. Maybe
to Canada also), berating all software professionals just for the heck of
it!
(I would also like to make a mention of the general lack of understanding of
English by most Indians. I do not claim to be an expert in English, which
after all is a foreign language and which we Indians have had to fall back
upon as the language of communication for the sole reason that we do not
have a language which everyone understands. Let me be honest here, when I
say that I have not attempted to answer any of the % questions put forth by
Mr.Hathoda, solely for the reasons that I did not understand his English (it
is not the typo errors I am talking about but the grammatical errors) and
did not want to cause further confusion. I think if Mr.Hathoda sits back and
perhaps reads my previous letter with the help of a person, who can
understand English, he will appreciate that some of the words he put into my
mouth, were mere misinterpretations of what I had written and meant. Let me
be honest, when I say that I am not contemptuous. When we Indians try to
write something in English, we make the mistake of putting together the
sentence in our mother tongue and then trans-literating it into English. It
becomes something un-English and leads to confusion. It is something which
we cannot overcome completely. We just have to strive to overcome, but need
not feel ashamed about it.)
He further writes : "The truth is financial reasons and lifestyle brought
us here in USA. If you don't want to accept this then What are you doing
here in USA? "
Exactly my point. I have come here to make money and not crow over the
rooftop that I am the cream of India, which I humbly submit that I am not.
He also writes : "First of all to land a job in India you need not to be
Gold Medalist or COBOL literate, the only thing you need to have is plenty
of money for bribery or son of a politician or high profile government
officer. "
This is the kind of generalisation, which I have found that most Indians,
who come over here to the US, make knowing fully well that they did not
resort to any such under the table deals, to land up good jobs back in
India. Some of these people, who could not land up jobs in India,
unabashedly club all others who get jobs as people who have paid bribes. It
might have been true to a large extent before 1980s, when everybody wanted a
Govt job. But even then there were avenues like the Banking sector, the
professional sector, the armed forces etc which were recruiting without
corruption. Since 1984 and more so after 1991, when the IT industry really
started growing, people with nothing but intelligence and good academic
record have found themselves landing good jobs. The IT industry and growing
presence of TNCs did not care for second rate stuff. So these people who
considered a job as their birth right (forgive me, Tilakji), naturally
started deriving all conclusions other than the truth.
The main point of discussion was regarding some perverts who create problems
in theatres. He wanted to know why we, the cream of India, resort to this. I
explained in my own way, that whether or not we are the cream of India, it
is not all Indians who indulge in this, but the perverts. And a pervert is a
pervert, is a pervert, is a pervert irresepective of whether he is India or
in the USA, whether he is educated or uneducated and whether he is Vaseline
cream or Vicco cream.
He has taken the line of discussion to another level, which I don't want to
continue. I am not sure whether he will mention that this is also a "a funny
criticism". I feel strongly about India. I do not think that India is the
best country in the world. But then it is definitely not the worst country
in the world. I am really pained when people who spend 6 months in this
country, start deriding India and people back there. Any country is as good
or bad as the people who live in it. Everybody blames the politicians and
corruption. Are there not politicians in USA? Is there not cirruption in the
USA? The difference lies in the attitude of the people. I am happy to note
that Mr.Hathoda also wants to go back to India. Maybe we will meet somewhere
in India, trying to lead India to greater heights - shades of a new Gandhi
(you) & JP (me):-).
Venkitachalam Subramanian
| By Hathoda on Thursday, December 31, 1998 - 10:19 pm: |
To Mr. Venkitachalam Subramanian;
I accept my English is bad simply because I did not learn it from mother and also my parents were not rich so that they could afford a private school. I accept this and this is my weakness I am aware my friend Mr. Venkit (my apology for partial use of your name). But I think my English was not that bad in my previous posting that you was not able to understand and missed the whole point. The fact is that you don’t want to accept what I am trying to say. I think, problem is with your attitude. You are well aware that highly educated people come to USA from India "this is a fact" and you don’t want to accept it. When I say CREAM of India this is what I mean. I would like to have a second opinion from a neutral person (Not Mr. Venket under different name) that whether my point I was trying to make in my previous posting was not clear. I request a neutral person to start from "Bollywood? Indian Cinema? Art? Business? News! Views! Reviews!" discussion page. Actually this current discussion emerged from that section (Believe me it is really hilarious, and you’ll love it). I think actually Mr. Venkit took that fun stuff too serious. My friends I don’t want to win or loose in this discussion but I simply disagree with Mr. Venkit. I also did not put any words in his mouth either, I simply offered another opinion which should not have emerged at first place if you read my very first posting.
Not this matters but for your knowledge Mr. Venkit, I am not in IT field. I am in USA from last 11 years. Referring back to your Gold Medalist comment, I was 2nd in Civil Engineering from Punjab University…. missed Gold Medal and you are right that Gold Medalist do not come to USA. For your knowledge, I am traditional Engineer with normal computer background and don’t know SAP or COBOL. I think the young guy’s from India are coming and talking jobs in IT, good for them and our country. As India badly need foreign currency. Even if we send a small amount to our relatives or parents this will help our beloved India. I feel this is one way of paying back our dues to our beloved country. I feel proud that my Indian brothers are coming and landing jobs in USA. If you don’t mind can you please tell me why your attitude was so "rational" for people taking Jobs in COBOL and SAP in your very first posting. You are in the IT field and why are you nerves about new guy’s getting jobs? Are they taking your job? I don’t know the history of computing in India but one thing I know that India is behind in computer applications than western countries. I don’t want to continue this type of discussion. So take it easy my brother …… HAPPY NEW YEAR and GOD BLESS OUR INDIA.
| By Joseph on Monday, January 04, 1999 - 10:05 pm: |
I would define brain drain as:
" when the lack of manpower in white collar industries is such that it halts the progress of India from where the brain power is drained, than it is brain drain phenomenon for India".
Even if we consider that 100% NRI are professionals, they amount to less than few percent of total educated mass of India. I would not call this a Brain drain. It simply means that we have far more number of graduates which India can suply to the world.
On the other hand, if graduates are leaving equally well jobs offered in India for abroad and thus creating void in India which can not be filled, than it is a Brain Drain.
Recently, Newsweek had cover page story about IIT graduates and their easy passage to USA Universities. I did not get the stat on how many of these IIT graduates (what percent) get visas to USA? Does anyone have numbers to share? By the way, I did not mean to imply that ONLY IIT grads are the cream of the crops. :-)
| By Venkitachalam Subramanian on Wednesday, January 06, 1999 - 12:25 am: |
01. As regards English, I too did not go to any private school. I had my
education in Kerala (which as the many jokes go, is the worst state in India
where one can learn English). I always have a Mallu accent, of which I am
not at all ashamed. Why should I develop a false American, British or
Australian accent, when I am not one of them. The only thing which I did and
succeeded was try to speak and write English like it should be.
02. I never for once said that highly educated people do not come over to
USA. My whole point was that the percentage of such people was low
especially after the 80s. I would count the Chandra sekhars, Khuranas, and
the wonderful engineers who made Intel, Microsoft, Oracle what they are
today and the Silicon valley entrepreneurs as CREAM of India, (of course, I
made a mistake about Mr. Hathoda's academic brilliance, but then I never for
once implied that he was not among the cream of India.) and not the
thousands of application programmers who came over in droves (I have no
hesitation in acknowledging that I was also one of them), just because USA
needed them. It is just like the Gulf boom of the 70s.
03. I have my own opinion about whether the phenomenon of young people
coming and taking up jobs in IT is beneficial for the country. It is
definitely beneficial for the person and his family in India. But what does
India gain from it? Practically nothing. The savings which the SW
professional makes are all in USD in the USA. Whatever amount he sends
across to his family, is spent on extravagance. It is very much like the
monstrosities in concrete, lying around in the villages of Kerala, with no
buyers or people to live in! In this regard, we have to take a leaf out of
China's book (we might even have to steal the whole book). Let us just take
a stroll around any shopping mall in the USA. You find almost everything
with the label "Made in China". How was that possible? They literally caused
all the major industries in the USA to take advantage of their cheap labor
and move shop there. It made good economic sense. We have to read the book
"The decline and fall of the American Programmer". It was book written much
before the Internet became a craze. It clearly describes how software
development will shift from the US to countries like Korea, Israel,
Phillipines etc once the telecom infra structure is in place. Today, if
India can boast of anything of quality in the world, it is IT professionals.
It should be our endeavour to get major software players to set shop in
India and use Indian talent to develop products. This will lead to a lot of
companies starting up in India and a lot of employment in India. Compare
that with a few people like us with H1B coming (about 35,000 in 1997, the
first year the cap of 65,000 was reached and 42,000 in 1998.) and making
money for ourselves and leaving a pittance for India. India should put
forward the concept of off-shore development and the advantages of the time
difference, because of which it is almost as if the client and the software
developer are working 24 hours together. We have quite a few success stories
in the area of off-shore development like TCS, Infosys, HCL, Wipro, Satyam
etc. I think it is only a very few persons like the Andhra Pradesh CM Mr.
Chandra Babu Naidu, who have some vision regarding IT and its possibilities,
among the politicians in India. (I know people will now write hate mail that
I am envious of all the new people who would also come in and take my job,
as Mr.Hathoda put it)
| By Editor (Admin) on Thursday, January 07, 1999 - 05:32 pm: |
this is a letter to the Editor of a newspaper in India
from: asianage.com
Patriotism first
Sir, Every year our government spends crores of rupees on providing the necessary equipment, infrastructure and other facilities for students of professional courses. It is a distressing fact that most of these students, after completion of their education, do not bother to serve their country. Rather, these engineers, doctors and businessmen choose to leave this country in order to fill their own pockets. I, therefore, feel that the government should take a pledge from these people at the time of their admission that they will serve India for a minimum period of 10 years if not more. We ought to serve our nation despite all odds.
Sandhya Kapoor
New Delhi
| By whywhywhy on Friday, January 08, 1999 - 11:57 am: |
there should not be any restrictions on people
leaving India for job opportunities. If people
are leaving India then it must be because there
are better opportunities elswhere.
What the Indian govt must do to prevent this
is to allow an environment in India where
people have no incentive to leave. India must
learn from the success of the SW arena and
apply it to other industries. Why cant India
market itself as a low cost supplier to the
rest of the world, like China does. They make
US$180 billion a year exporting everything
from paper towels to color tvs to the US and
the rest of the world. India has the same
advantages (low labor cost + the added benefit
of english speaking workers) as China so why
do we fail miserably?
India must learn to make things the rest of the
world wants - not make something and hope the
rest of the world wants. Also, we must move away
from raw material exports and move instead to
value added products. Since India has not gained
the expertise to market products in the US and
elswhere, the best way to get into this is to
start out as an OEM producer for the
multinationals. These multinationals will do all
the marketing for us. This is why China is
such a successful exporter.
If we dont expand our export basket, no amount
of rupee devaluation will help us. The japanese
currency had DOUBLED in value against the US
over the last few years, but the trade deficits
persist. the Rupee has devalued many times over
and still we cant increase our exports. WE
MUST MAKE PRODUCTS THE WEST WANTS!!!
| By Neha on Monday, May 17, 1999 - 01:37 pm: |
Just going back to the movie theatre discussion for a second...I have a funny story to share. I went with my family to see a movie at Bloomfield theatre in NJ and the movie started at 9. The owners would not open the doors until 8:55. We arrived early so we were at the front of the line. When the doors opened, there was a massive push, yes, PUSH from the back and we were involuntarily thrown into the theatre. Over 50 old people and children were literally trampled by people so savagely making their way into the theatre! I had never witnessed anything like it! What are these people thinking?!
| By filmfan on Friday, May 28, 1999 - 01:53 pm: |
Unfortunately, crowd control and security at Indian Movie showings are quite inadequate. The promoters attempt to cut every possible corner to promote maximum profit margins.
In the city I live in, Hindi films are shown on Saturday nites at an AMC theatre (that shows older movies at reduced rates). The theatre is pretty nice and clean but I had noticed that it had become very hot. Being the inquisitor, I went into another theater playing American movies (where the temperature was more pleasant). I inquired with the ticket sales person (who stadns in front of the enterance to the theater showing the Hindi movies) and he admitted after some debate, that there are individual climate controls for each theater. Since my allergies were worsening due to the temperature, I file a complaint with theater management. I think that when the promoter rents the theater, theater management passes along the utility costs. Dealing with the 'bureucratic elite' attitude of the promoter made me feel as I was dealing with the administrators of a third world environment.
I ended up missing much of the movie and ended up renting it on video.
I am wondering if other have had 'challenging' experiences when viewing Hindi movies in theater.
| By puru on Tuesday, July 06, 1999 - 06:49 am: |
This is in response to Mr.Venkits attitude towards
fellow indians. I hope my english is acceptable.
I am from your favorite city in India. unfortunately , the city has become a nightmare
as for as the climate and cleanlyness is concerned. This is because every one wants to settle down in your city instead of making their own city as good as your city.
I would like to comment on your views about creams of india . Iam not in IT business like you and others who are participting in this.
But one thing is certain United states is the country of opportunity where every one will get chance. Americans donot look into these kinds of standards. The employer must be satisfied with his employee. Thats all they care. If Indians who are not creams still can perform better in USA.MY own brother who was not a gold medalist, But could fulfil what America needed. Now he is working with one of the prestigeous company doing
exceptionally well. America certainly need gold medlists,nobel prize winners, but mejority fall in average catagory.
America knows what kind of people they want. They are good at this. Instead of having these kind of arguements we should be concentrating about creams,gold medlists who have secured very
important positions in India are doing honest job
(many of them are corrupt).
This is mym honest opinion as a Indian born US citizen.
God Bless America.
| By Thirumani on Thursday, August 26, 1999 - 08:07 am: |
Let us look at it this way. Let us assume for the next five years or so no intelectual is allowed to go out of India. Do you think things will change. Does anybody have an agenda to offer to the people who are leaving India. What do you want them to do in India.
Talking about money being spent on IITians, I think this is nothing when compared to the kind of money laundered in scams. Even thirukkural says that educating a person is the most noblest thing one can do. Why do want to stop Indian Government from doing that.